The Secret Sauce Behind Viral Branding: From American Eagle to McDonald’s Grinch Meal

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What do McDonald’s pickle fries, Sydney Sweeney’s “great genes” controversy, and Martha Stewart’s Gen-Z renaissance all have in common? They reveal exactly how backlash, rebrands, and authenticity shape what actually sells in 2025.

What You’ll Learn:

• Why scarcity marketing still works—even when customers hate the product
• How public backlash impacts brand deals (and the real lesson from the Sydney Sweeney fallout)
• The shift from celebrity influence to micro-influence and how small creators are quietly winning

⏱️ Timestamps

00:00 – Introduction
02:58 – Why McDonald’s Grinch Meal “sold out” even as everyone complained
 06:40 – Backlash vs. brand collabs: which one actually drives sales?
 09:15 – Scarcity, perceived value & the psychology behind selling digital products
 19:45 – Sydney Sweeney x American Eagle: the fallout, the apology, and the Martha Stewart pivot
 33:12 – Is the celebrity-endorsement era dying?
 39:10 – Why micro-influencers outperform macro stars (and what this means for your niche)
 46:20 – The YouTube pivot and why long-form, search-driven content is the future

📚 References & Resources

• McDonald’s Grinch Meal
• Martha Stewart
• Scooter Braun
• Snoop Dogg
• 75 Hard
• Steven Bartlett
• Diary of a CEO

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📱 Social: @themichellepualani | @joanna_atwork
📩 Michelle: hello@michellepualani.com
🌐 Joanna: millennialmktr.com

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Transcript

Joanna Newton: [00:00:00] Welcome back to another episode of the Click Tease podcast. This week we're bringing you an update on the American Eagle in Sydney Sweeney campaign. We'll also be talking about a viral meal that makes. Donald's let out. That caused all sorts of commotion and sharing some trends that we've been noticing in the influencer and celebrity space about how to be more authentic to really grow your brand and generate sales.

This week, Michelle is out of town, so I have a very special guest. Brandon, the co-founder of my company, millennial marketer, will be chatting with us this week. 

I'm excited today 'cause we have a very, very special guest. Instead of Michelle who is out on vacation. I'm bringing in the co-founder of my company. I know I always say I am the co-founder of Millennial Marketer. Well, this is the other half. [00:01:00] Brandon, what are you drinking today? To chat with us on the podcast.

Brandon Trentalange: . Hey, I'm excited to be here. I have the, uh, vintage Cola Ollie Pop. of the Ali Pop Gang now, and um, I've been waiting for this moment. I've had it out. I got outta the fridge about 10 minutes ago and I waited to crack it until we were on the podcast.

so, Cheers. 

Joanna Newton: We got some good A SMR, like we got the sound right in the mic, so that was perfect. Um. 

Brandon Trentalange: That was a great one. 

Joanna Newton: Today I'm drinking. This is my favorite podcast. Coffee Cup. I don't think you've ever seen it, Brandon. I call it my teeny tiny coffee cup. I've got a long shot of decaf espresso because it's two 30 and I don't wanna be up all night, and I'm trying to be better about caffeine, 

Brandon Trentalange: Yeah, well, it looks 

Joanna Newton: which is,

Brandon Trentalange: don't know. I don't know if there's any caffeine in here. You know, I don't do well with caffeine.

Joanna Newton: I don't know if there's caffeine in op. Is there.

Brandon Trentalange: It's gluten free. Um, I think that some of it's either OP or, um, what's the other brand that's very [00:02:00] similar to 

Joanna Newton: There's culture pop poppy.

Brandon Trentalange: Yeah, I know that Poppy. I think one of the flavors has like a few milligrams of caffeine in it. Um, but I quit caffeine about two years ago and that was like a big jump for me because I used to drink a lot of coffee. And I just like got to this point where, like you said, where like in the afternoon I just felt like, okay, I'm gonna be up all night. And I just got so much like unneeded. I feel like the energy went to good places when I drank it and had like work to do. But then it went to like, you know, just being. Jittery and anxious and, you know, having too much energy in the afternoon. Um, and so I quit cold Turkey, a part of 75 hard, that challenge that I did, and then went back. I had a sip of coffee after 75 days of no coffee and I had, there was no place for it, so 

Joanna Newton: Dad.

Brandon Trentalange: to continue on my [00:03:00] non caffeine

Joanna Newton: Yeah. 

Brandon Trentalange: Yeah. it's interesting. 

Joanna Newton: Yeah. Both my husband and I like we stopped trying to, we started trying to stop drinking caffeine earlier than we used to, and one night Dan had a really long like volleyball match. We got home late and he was like, you know, I'm gonna have a soda before bed. It's fine. I'm so tired. He was up at two 30 in the morning, like he woke up at 

Brandon Trentalange (2): what. 

Joanna Newton: two 30 and never went back to bed.

Brandon Trentalange (2): That's what it does to you. So, yeah, I'm, I, I have had no caffeine and I've had full energy full days. I don't rely on it anymore. And you know me, I can go, I can 

Joanna Newton: Yeah. 

Brandon Trentalange (2): long. 

Joanna Newton: Yeah. Well, the first thing I wanna chat about on today's show is something I know you don't frequent very often, Michelle wouldn't frequent either. She wouldn't know, but I wanna talk about. McDonald's because this week they were in the news because they had a special meal. There was this like Grinch special meal.

It was an adult Happy meal. [00:04:00] You get a Big Mac or uh, chicken nuggets. And then they had this like dill seasoning for the fries that you could like shake. And it came with like funny Grinch socks and it was all over social media. Because it's sold out in days. So they had this offer, it's sold out in days.

People would try to go get it and they'd be at McDonald's angry. So that's like one side of it. And on the other side there were people getting it and like angry, so they would like get it for their kids. They'd be mad that the socks were adult sized socks, even though it was an adult happy meal. Or they'd be like, this is disgusting.

These like dill pickle fries are gross. So like it really caused a stir and I don't even think you can get it anymore. But what's really fascinating about the whole thing is like the McDonald's team is talking about how this was one of their biggest launches, like they made bank and people kind of hated it at the [00:05:00] same time.

Brandon Trentalange (2): So it was successful, like out outside of all of the, you know, sides that people. Were on, they, they actually, you know, saw like sales increase and, and everything They were looking for happen.

Joanna Newton: They got sales. They got attention even though people were online hating about it, which is like so fascinating. I think in like social media in the world, like sometimes backlash can actually make you money.

Brandon Trentalange (2): Yeah. Backlash can make you money. I think that. Okay. So I have a question now. So do you think that backlash makes more money or do you think that partnerships. Between two companies make more money 

Joanna Newton: Oh.

Brandon Trentalange (2): I always, I always see the collabs and the collabs always do really well. So if there's a side of things where collabs will get the attention that you need, is backlash substituting on the other side for that same attention. 

Joanna Newton: That's so interesting. Well, you know what, this was kind of both, [00:06:00] right? Because it was like a Grinch intellectual property and McDonald's collab and caused social media conversation. Like, I don't know if. I think both help. I don't know which one trumps the other, but I think anything that can create social conversation, I think ideally that social conversation is positive, right?

Where people are talking positively about the brand, but McDonald's kind of like banks on this all of the time of like creating these. Stirs that are limited time only to get people talking. And I think for a brand like McDonald's, if something's bad, it's not gonna hurt it forever. Like I don't think like a small, like a small local coffee shop should try to make something that people are gonna think is bad and complain about that would probably a bad move.

But McDonald's being this like major corporation, if something is kind of like people don't like it. It can help more people talk about it [00:07:00] because people love to go buy things and make those like, oh, this is horrible face on social media. 'cause it gets them views, you know?

Brandon Trentalange (2): Yeah. Yeah, definitely. And I think that one thing that makes that really, uh, really interesting is that McDonald's does one thing or like a few things really, really well. And so I think that when they say they're doing something like. You know, the Grinch or the McRib or something that's just so out of the ordinary.

It's that curiosity factor where it's like, wait, I associate McDonald's with these very few things. They do really well and they're taking a chance and trying to switch it up. And that's where people's opinions come into play. It could either be really good or really bad, but I think that you know why those launches do so well is because they do what they do really well. Then they collab with someone else or they collab on something different. And you wanna see if it does well or if it doesn't. And if it doesn't do well, you wanna be the [00:08:00] first one to say didn't do it the way that they thought they were. And if it does do well, then you're like, oh, you know?

you know, I knew that was gonna happen. 

Joanna Newton: Yeah, and I, I saw that this was happening and I was like, oh geez, this is gonna sell out. My daughter's a big Grinch fan and so I was like, I've gotta get her these socks. You know what I mean? Like, I was like, I've gotta get the socks for her. So we got one of the meals and I, so I like Dill pickle. And like I thought the fries were actually really good.

Um, and may loved the fries too. And so when I, I went back to try to get her just the fries, not like the whole, the whole meal and the socks and they were just like out. And I talked to one of the people and they were like, yeah, they only gave us enough for like, we had it for four days and it was gone.

And people are like livid, like people are really angry about it. And it's just so fascinating. Like when you think about. What scarcity does. 'cause even if it's not something that desirable scarcity can take something like french fries with some dill [00:09:00] pickle seasoning really are not that exciting. Like, let's, like, let's be really honest about this, but it can take something like that that costs pennies to make that is not that like special and turn it into something special.

Brandon Trentalange (2): Yeah, that's really interesting. I think that on, on a similar note, one thing that we have talked about a lot with our clients is, you know, in our business we sell digital products and people who are. something like a service, trading their time for money one-to-one, and really helping a, a group of individuals. They are very good because. They can say, I'm gonna give you my time, and people see the value of that time. Then when they switch to digital products, they're, you know, selling something that's a little less tangible. And so their first instinct is, oh, if it doesn't sell, I'm gonna just add my time to it.

Meaning, you know, maybe I can just add like. Coaching or, or they can [00:10:00] get more access to me or, you know, get my phone number or a group chat that I'm in and, and get direct access to me. And it's really interesting how people value different things as they go up the chain. And one thing that, that we always recommend to them is like, don't give your time away too soon. Because all of this stuff is about perceived value. That's what marketing is, and that's what they're doing here. The perceived value of something that has, know, very few of that item or scarcity related to it, is how they increase the value of it when people get there. And they're all out and they're sold out.

They're like, wait, the value of that just went up exponentially. And so I think that, that's kind of funny that you say that because we actually, whether we know it or not, recommend our clients do the same thing where we tell them like, wait to give away your time until. There's a really high perceived value of your [00:11:00] time, and then when someone's like, whether it's scarcity or just perceived value, or things that people want, meaning access to them, until it's at the highest perceived value to give it away, and then. When people take that time or when they get access to that thing, it feels so much more valuable, which maybe I'm comparing our clients' time to socks in this case, but, but the fact that McDonald's did that, they increased the, the perceived 

Joanna Newton: I'm stuck.

Brandon Trentalange (2): much that it was a pair of socks. And then we have people that are giving away their time.

You know, one-to-one hours of it is, is really funny. It's all about perceived value. 

Joanna Newton: Yeah, and one way I think that you, you can do that for your people if you have a digital product or membership, is start to offer one to many. We're doing that Thursday in our 10 day challenge where we're doing a live session. It's a free group of people, but we're not giving it [00:12:00] away one to one, right?

It's one to as many people want to show up to hear Brandon. Talk about our business and how we're growing and what we're going to do to change how we make money and how we deliver our services. When you go one to many people, then start to realize that that one-to-one time. Super is super valuable, right?

Because they see you talking to a group of people providing that insight, and then think, oh, I'd love to pick his ear on a strategy session, or get him to look at my sales page or get him to look at my funnel to provide the insight that I need to grow. So you can kind of start to sample what that one-on-one would look like.

Instill like live engaging ways. 'cause I think some, one step I think people sometimes miss in their funnel is they want them to go, someone to go from like a stale download to a $27 course to a $10,000 [00:13:00] mastermind. 

Brandon Trentalange (2): Mm-hmm. 

Joanna Newton: But then they do don't quite see the value of that Mastermind. But when you can start giving your time away in some one to many scenarios, either low cost or free, then people will really see the value of that mastermind.

Assuming you're good at what you do, of course.

Brandon Trentalange (2): Yeah.

Yeah, that stuff's really interesting. I think perceived value is a really interesting topic and. Um, you know, one thing that you know about me is that, you know, we're in so, so before I, before I dive down that path, we're in a really interesting time for this. Like, we are so lucky To be born when we were and be alive in this digital age where you can increase the perceived value of something like your knowledge or your time, which is really interesting. One thing that you know about me is both my parents are chiropractors and they have worked together. For the last 35 years, every single day in the morning when I was young, I would see them get up and go to work together. They would drive in [00:14:00] the same car down to the office. They worked together, lived together everything. And you know, they would, they would see patients all day long, every 30 minutes, all day long, and. went to medical school, they did nine years of schooling. They did all of these different things. You know, they have continuing education they have to do every single year. They have all these certifications, um, that come along with, you know, what they practice.

And it's just really interesting because my, my parents always look at what we do and they're like, I was just, you know, 30 years younger, if I was born, you know, just a little bit later. I could totally see how you could increase the value of your knowledge and distribute it in different ways where it's more valuable to just not the person who comes in for that adjustment, uh, but to many people at once.

And that's kind of what we've created here. you [00:15:00] know, taking advantage of, you know, the perceived value of, of knowledge and other things, and packaging it in a way where we can reach more people, even especially online. Right. And it's so interesting because, you know, I look at my parents and they look at what we do and they're so jealous.

Like, they're like, I, you know, I saw 10 patients today and, you know, the, they paid the same amount for every single visit and, you know, I just did 'em back to back to back and worked all day long. And they help. I mean, these are, these are life changing adjustments. Like they've been working with, you know, some of these patients have been seeing them for 20 plus years, like multiple generations, you know, the people they took care of, um, you know, now have kids and sometimes even they have kids.

So it's three generations of people, which is really interesting. But the value of that time for, you know, the value they're giving to that patient every single day. You know, they, they pour their heart out and they really, [00:16:00] really, you know, give everything they can and it makes a difference. However, it's really interesting because if you think about how to package, whether it's knowledge or value, or, um, you know, these different ways that you can help people.

Now we're in a situation where like, tomorrow we're gonna be helping tons of people at once with the same 30 minutes, right? It's the same 30 minutes my parents have, but yet. packaging it in a way where that value can be helpful to a group of people at the same time. So I think this, that was a great topic, like the make, you know, whether it's McDonald's or, or anyone, it's really cool how they're, they're taking something and, and increasing the value of it substantially and being able to hit the masses and that's, it's really interesting.

Joanna Newton: To to do that. And if you're always only thinking about. One appointment to a hundred dollars, one appointment to a hundred dollars. You're never going to get beyond any sort of income ability if you can't figure out [00:17:00] how to scale beyond that hour. Right. And that's what, like, that's what you and I do all day, is talk to people about how to do that and how to go, how to go beyond that.

And part of that's about being creative. And I think as an entrepreneur you have to just be forward thinking like. I remember when I started, I started at the Princeton Review. This was in like 20 12, 20 13. We had an asynchronous online SAT and a CT course that was like hidden on the website for sale. It was something they just gave to everybody if they bought tutoring, right.

And it was like hidden. And I just remember being in meetings and being like, guys, like we should be sailing. This because every tutoring student that comes in, we have to find a tutor, pay that tutor, bring them in. Every course student that comes in, we've got to pay rent, do this, do that to get people in the door.

If we start selling this online course. It's sold. It's done. There's like nothing else to do. Yeah. You might [00:18:00] have a customer service problem or someone saying, I can't get in, or I forgot my password. But that's like minimal compared to the work of providing the other services. And I just remember everyone thought I was absolutely crazy.

Like I was like. Guys, this is what we should be doing. This is what we should be doing. And then in 2020, during COVID, so much changed. Like people think about education and educational classes differently post COVID than they did pre COVID.

Brandon Trentalange (2): Yeah.

that's really interesting and, and the fact that, you know. You did that so early, what was, it's just so funny now 

Joanna Newton: Yeah.

Brandon Trentalange (2): like you, you always saw that value and, and some people don't and they try to prioritize time or different elements and say, no, we can't give the same amount of value, or we can't do this.

And you're like, no, this is gonna keep, keep the lights

Joanna Newton: Yeah.

Brandon Trentalange (2): whether you sell this package or if someone, you know, purchases this, this 

Joanna Newton: Yeah.

Brandon Trentalange (2): Online, which is, yeah, it, that's so cool to see. [00:19:00] And now, you know, transitioning this all, I feel like we're in the right place at the right time and you and I have both, you know, we met at the perfect time for this too.

And we're seeing a lot of changes in, you know, the space. And the other thing, you know, this the topic of like ai for example. Nowadays people are relying too much on these things that don't. Create value and, and really help people. They're, they're actually switching to a different model. So that, that's very interesting. 

Joanna Newton: Yeah, definitely. I wanna switch gears a little bit and report back on a story that Brandon, you missed. We've talked about this story on Click Tease before, but did you ever catch wind of the, like the Sydney Sweeney American Eagle ad controversy? 

Brandon Trentalange (2): Yeah, 

Joanna Newton: so there was an ad. The tagline was, Sydney Sweeney has great genes, and people were very upset [00:20:00] because they felt like there were like.

Race racist undertones to the ad. There was lots of backlash. Well, there's been some really interesting updates about this campaign this week that I just find completely fascinating. The first is Sydney Sweeney actually kind of apologized this week, so she had been silent about it. There was one interview where she was like, I don't even pay attention to that stuff.

But then Sydnee Sweeney's. Not been doing so well. She had a movie completely flop in the box office, and I think this was backlash from this experience. So she recently made a statement that said she was really surprised by the reaction and confirmed that she does not hold the values that that ad made people think she held.

So she actually spoke out about it, which I think is really interesting because I think the BA that just shows the backlash of what happened. Really hurt her. The other really interesting thing is American Eagle has a new [00:21:00] spokesperson. You are never gonna guess who. It's Brandon. 

Brandon Trentalange (2): Who is it? 

Joanna Newton: It's Martha Stewart.

Like if you could go opposite of Sydnee Sweeney is Martha Stewart. And what's also really interesting about this choice is um, the execs at American Eagle, they said they're doing this 'cause apparently Martha Stewart is really popular with Gen Z and I guess she like has a TikTok and people, gen Z people are following her and that they're into it.

And they were like, you know what, like Martha Stewart is someone who won't upset the grandmas. That Gen Z likes, so that's why they went with Martha Stewart. But what's also interesting is Martha Stewart is known for being pretty like anti-Trump. So like they did a campaign that got a lot of the MAGA people actually excited and saying, now I'm gonna shop there.

Which is like wild. But then went with this like anti-Trump [00:22:00] figure who's been very public about how she feels about her politics and. It just kind of shows me as like an outsider that that campaign did not bode well for American Eagle or Sydney Sweeney.

Brandon Trentalange (2): That's really interesting and, and it is funny 'cause I've seen, you know, talk about a rebrand. Martha Stewart really 

Joanna Newton: Mm-hmm.

Brandon Trentalange (2): and she is super popular. I've seen a lot of the stuff with her and Snoop Dogg specifically have gotten her like this exposure from these audiences that I, I, you know, I watched a little bit of her. Um, her, uh, movie on Netflix and the way her life started versus, you know, what she's doing now is very, very different, which is really interesting. 

Joanna Newton: Yeah.

Brandon Trentalange (2): um, Yeah.

no, I think the, the stuff, you know, and Snoop Dogg is, is very similar too. You know, they're, they're both like really agile. They both are super, you know, flexible.

They rebrand constantly. I mean, the thing [00:23:00] that's really cool about both of them is actually how old they are. And how relevant they 

Joanna Newton: Yeah. 

Brandon Trentalange (2): which is crazy. I mean, these people have stayed. There are plenty of people, you know, from their generation that aren't even remotely, you know, compared to to them.

And it's because of the rebrand of how they're just adapting over time. And I think this is probably, um, you know, on Martha Stewart's, uh, side, you know, in, you know, one of those like I can take anything, rebrand it. And, you know, come out on top. And so that, that's gonna be really interesting to see.

Joanna Newton: Yeah. And these people who, like, one thing we talk about on this podcast is a lot is the power of a personal brand. Like when you have a following, when you have a connection with people that can really translate to anything. So if people follow you and are connected with you. You can change what you're selling, change what you're doing and they'll stay connected to [00:24:00] you.

But the other thing too is sometimes you lose that following or times change or things are different. So both of these figures, being able to like jump and rebrand, some people just disappear. Like they, they disappeared into the oblivion, but they found ways to stay relevant by doing new and different things.

Not to go back to like the McDonald's at the beginning, but that's what the Grinch meal does, right? It it makes people like, who probably haven't been to McDonald's in 10 years, think, oh, maybe I should go because they have this thing. And when you can like rebrand and do things exciting and do things that are surprising, you can keep people's attention.

Brandon Trentalange (2): And, and one thing that's really important to note there too is that for Sydney Sweeney, if she doesn't recover from this, that would be considered a huge missed opportunity. You know, and so there are some people that recover from whatever it is. I mean, Martha Stewart's, you know, hasn't had a, a perfect life.

She's had plenty of challenges in her life where she's [00:25:00] recovered from. All of them rebranded and most likely used those challenging moments to help her gain momentum for the direction that she's going, which is really interesting. So it's, it's cool to see. You know, all of this stuff is marketing, whether people know it or not, like these, you know, this is, you know, people that are facing challenges in their lives, for example, or they made decisions that really affected their career or their personal life, whatever it is. And there's two options, right? There's, you know, sulk in it and, and get hit by it and, you know, come to a, a complete halt or, you know, use it as fuel. It's like eight mile, you know, with m and m, right? Like you can't. You can't attack someone or put them down or you know, you know, stunt their momentum if they've embraced the challenges that they've faced along the way and are using them as fuel to continue forward. 

Joanna Newton: Yeah, exactly. And when we, when I talk to business owners all of the [00:26:00] time, you talk to business owners all of the time. Something I see a lot is people will try something once, 

Brandon Trentalange (2): Mm-hmm. 

Joanna Newton: won't go well, and they give up. 

Brandon Trentalange (2): Yeah. 

Joanna Newton: Like they, they, and then they stop. But the thing is, the people who are successful keep going.

Martha Stewart was in jail, 

Brandon Trentalange (2): Yeah, you can't.

Joanna Newton: you know what I mean? That just the face of American Eagle campaign. Like who would've thought that was gonna happen? And I think that. There's a resilience that you need to have. If you're trying something on social media and it doesn't work the first, second or third time, you kind of have to keep going, and then if it doesn't work after three months, then maybe you pivot and try something new.

If you're selling a particular offer, same thing. If you've only pitched it to 10 people and get 10 nos, that's like actually not enough. Like you have to keep talking about it, keep pitches, pitching it, and trying to sell it.

Brandon Trentalange: I know I, I know that a lot of people know the statistics around [00:27:00] small businesses, but that's a great example of, you know, when people are too scared to start. They're not thinking about the fact that the idea they have now is not the idea that, you know, helps them reach their goals or, um, you know, helps them find the success that they're looking for.

And, and we've found that too. I mean, that's part of business is pivoting, it's adapting, it's rebranding, it's, you know, learning from the challenges that you face in adapting. I mean, you're gonna come out. Either with, you know, something similar or a completely different way of doing things based on, you know, what, you know, what you're dealing with.

And I think that a lot of people, you know, whether it's people just starting a business or clients that we talk to, they're so afraid of starting because they're like, what if it.

flops? Or what if what I put out there people don't resonate with? Or what if the thing that I go all in on isn't what my audience wants to see? Yeah.[00:28:00]

And there should be a book or, or something maybe there is about, you know, like learning based on, you know, it's called trial and error, but like learning based on just doing everything wrong. Like, I think that's, 

Joanna Newton: Yeah.

Brandon Trentalange (2): could be an interesting topic because it's like. Why don't you just learn by doing everything wrong as opposed to, you know, thinking that you're gonna get everything right, right away.

And so I, I, that's like, you know, that, that's, that's something that people need to, whether, whether anything, whether it's a business or a new passion or a new pursuit in your life, um, it, it takes grit and it takes, you know, getting momentum and the momentum early on isn't gonna be the same momentum as what carries you through the finish line. 

Joanna Newton: Yeah, I think too many business owners think. Too much of like a one-to-one when it comes to ROI, whether it's their time or money, but they're like, say I spend 10 hours on this thing. I want to see 10 hours of return on that thing. Or if I spend a thousand dollars on that [00:29:00] thing, I want it to make me $3,000.

And I'm not saying you can never, never think like that, but I always think. It more as a whole, like your business is almost more of like a mutual fund than a single stock. Because you're gonna try something and it's gonna like pay off 20 fold. You're gonna try something else and you might lose money and that's okay.

As long as there's like a net positive in the end because what you learn while doing this thing, you're gonna apply to the other thing and. What you've might have lost there. You've gained there. And when you think too rigidly of like, okay, if I'm gonna build a digital product, it's gonna cost me $10,000 or whatever.

Say like, that's what you've figured out. Well I have to make back that $10,000 in the first year. Well, like hopefully you do. That would be great. But if you didn't. One, you have that product forever. Two, you've learned a lot along the way. Three, you can probably raise your [00:30:00] one-on-one prices because now you have a lower cost offer.

So it's like the whole picture, I think you have to think about versus this like one-to-one ROI.

Brandon Trentalange (2): Yeah.

that's, that's really important. And I think that it's important for things, you know, whether it's business or things like creating habits, like creating 

Joanna Newton: Yeah, 

Brandon Trentalange (2): too. Like every, everyone thinks that the result is gonna happen the first day you start something and, you know, in actuality, like, you know, uh, the, the, uh. The book Micro, uh, atomic Habits, you know, talks about a similar concept where things compound over time. And, uh, to your point, you know about money, for example, it's, it's like compound interest, right? You know, 1%. Every day better turns out to be a certain percentage each year, and that's, not just a one-to-one ROI in the end, you're getting, you know, I forgot what the exact number is, but you're getting an insanely higher ROI on that same amount of [00:31:00] time that you put into it.

So I think it could be applied to anything. I think that marketing also, um, is really interesting because it's built on human psychology. none of this stuff is being created out of the blue. It's taking people's psychology, their intent, how they make decisions, you know, the challenges they face, the pain points they take, and it's re, it's, it's just giving a, uh, a simpler approach and giving it back to them saying, Hey, here's your psychology about this specific element.

Here's a way that we can solve that or help you, whatever it is. That's just, that's all marketing is.

Joanna Newton: Yeah, that's, and when you break it down that simply, I think it helps people understand it. I think a lot of times we way over complicate it. And there's definitely, like when you look at the big $20 million campaigns that big corporations do, there's gonna be a lot of testing and a lot of things going into that [00:32:00] campaign.

But if you actually just start. If you're working on social media or a sales page, just really start to talk to that person and think about how you would chat with them in a one-on-one situation. Right? Like what would you say to someone about your product? What would you say to someone about the problem and how you solve it?

It's really not. That complicated, especially to get started. Now when you're talking about optimizing a funnel or that's like a whole different thing, but like getting the initial sale, getting the initial flow is really about connecting with people and helping them solve a problem and leaning on that psychology.

And you're a human, like you are a person who's had a problem and had it solved and like, what would you wanna hear that would do that for you? 

Brandon Trentalange (2): So do 

Joanna Newton: I.

Brandon Trentalange (2): that Martha Stewart is gonna lead American Eagle? What direction? 

Joanna Newton: Back from, back, from the dead. Um, I, I think it's really interesting. I, I think she can, I think that there are some people who have [00:33:00] like boycotted American Eagle and probably aren't going back unless they issue some sort of apology. 'cause the campaign was, I don't know, it was a little tasteless, like, let's be honest, but 

Brandon Trentalange (2): but it just. Kind of got phased out too. I 

Joanna Newton: yeah.

Brandon Trentalange (2): really, I, I mean, I don't, I didn't track it afterwards, but I, I don't think there was any, it kind of just fizzled out 

Joanna Newton: Yeah.

Brandon Trentalange (2): left people feeling the way they felt when it happened. 

Joanna Newton: Yeah. I think they're hoping people just forget about it with Martha Stewart.

Brandon Trentalange (2): Okay, so here's my question now. Do you think that Sidney Sweeney lost an opportunity to rebuild herself, rebrand, and come back from that? Or do you think that, um, you know, Martha Stewart's gonna give them a higher return than Sidney Sweeney could ever do if she even, you know, took that time to rebrand? 

Joanna Newton: I, I think that. Regardless of American Eagle, I, I think Sydney Sweeney has lost an opportunity to rebrand. I think she didn't respond fast [00:34:00] enough. 

Brandon Trentalange (2): Yeah. 

Joanna Newton: She. Like, it's like six how many months later, six months later, she's like, yeah, I'm not racist. But she also didn't say, yeah, I'm not racist. She said, yeah, I don't hold the values people think I hold based on that ad.

So she also is very like, dip. She didn't give like a clear enough answer. So I think that she's lost an opportunity to rebrand. Nothing. She's really done since has been successful. Um, she's also now dating like Scooter Braun, which. You asked, you should know about Scooter Braun because you have a Swifty girlfriend, but like that's like a whole nother thing.

I feel like she's aligned herself a little bit with like the bad guys and hasn't done enough to realign with the good guys. And then now that she's sort of apologized, she's probably not a fan of this. You know the other people. So like, I don't know, it's like a real weird situation. I think Martha Stewart will kind of [00:35:00] have a neutral effect on American Eagle.

So I think some people will probably come back. Um, I don't think it'll like bring some people who are mad at them way back, but I think it'll have a neutral effect, especially going into the holidays like. With a holiday campaign. It, it is a lot of older people buying for younger folks, right? Like what does a grandma or an older mom go and buy their nieces, nephews?

Like a hoodie from an American eagle is like a pretty safe gift. And also I think with like a safe representative. Um, so I think if like either of those people want like a resurgence, they're going to have to do more. To be honest. 'cause I think the backlash of what happened was pretty negative and there was shown to be like a pretty, like all the stocks rose during that ad, but then everything immediately dropped.

Brandon Trentalange (2): I think that I don't know. And, and maybe this is, I guess my question is, do you think that, [00:36:00] or like, I guess I'm, I'm ready for the celebrity endorsement era to be 

Joanna Newton: Yeah.

Brandon Trentalange (2): Like what, like, when is this gonna end? Like when is, you know, I, I guess my question is. think that, you know, celebrity endorsements will carry weight into the future of marketing?

Because we're seeing, you know, we're seeing have to redefine marketing completely, 

Joanna Newton: Yeah.

Brandon Trentalange (2): seeing it in, you know, the current events and things that are happening. I just don't think, my prediction is that I don't think that celebrity endorsements are gonna carry the weight that they used to moving forward.

And I think that businesses are gonna have to go back to leading based on value 

Joanna Newton: Yeah.

Brandon Trentalange (2): And you know, I think that there is a lot of stuff about. You know, like company culture was a huge thing for so long, right? Apple and um, you know, Facebook and all of these places that said, Hey, this is the best [00:37:00] company to work for.

Like, company culture was like the biggest thing at one point in time. I just think that there's gonna have to be something new leading us moving forward. You can't just say, oh, I care more than you do. And then, you know, hire someone that says we care more than you do. There's gotta be something that's coming that is just value-based.

Like, I think that there might be a bubble that needs to pop where people go, oh, a lot of the stuff I was seeing on social media wasn't what it seemed like. And you know, maybe there's gonna be a group of businesses or uh, even a category of businesses that stay for the long haul and that, you know, I hope the celebrity endorsement. Era ends soon because I think we're gonna have to be a little bit more strategic 

Joanna Newton: Yeah. 

Brandon Trentalange (2): businesses and providing value. 

Joanna Newton: Yeah. And people, people are savvy, right? I think like in in the social media era and where everyone's talking on the internet, like people are super savvy. They know these people are [00:38:00] getting paid. Martha Stewart might not actually wear American Eagle jeans. Like who knows, right? And so I think those recommendations carry less weight but can get attention.

But like does that actually. Move to purchases, right? Does that attention get people to buy or is it just noise? And I think one of the things that. That I know is happening on social media is like the importance of like the micro influencer. So the person with a 10,000, 20,000 really niche following can have a big impact on recommending a product even more so than an influencer with a million followers because people know that influencer with a million followers got the product for free, might be getting paid to promote and all of that, whereas like the micro.

Influencer with 10, 20,000 followers, this person's still a regular person, right? Like they're not a millionaire in a [00:39:00] mansion. They're regular person living a regular life who happens to be a content creator, right? And I think that those people are getting more trusted in this space.

Brandon Trentalange (2): And something they did caught the attention of others where it's like, you know, it's back to that like friends recommend friends thing where something they did caught the attention of someone else and then someone else goes, oh. actually feel like I have access to this person. I'm at the same level as this person, so maybe I can do that thing they're they're doing, because that looks really interesting.

Sarah's had, uh, an incredible, incredible. Effect on people in not only our friend group, our circle, but also, you know, twice removed and, and people feeling like they're really close to her. And she's a micro influencer as well. And the tiktoks that she does are just sharing what we do in our everyday life.

And I've seen, you know, we work with a lot of influencers. She has had [00:40:00] way more success than a lot of influencers that I know by just. Only promoting things that she uses. Yeah. Um, the other thing that, that I was gonna say too, was. Um, you know, there's a, Steven Bartlett is, um, diary of a CEO. He's, uh, on, I think it's called Shark Den, or it's a, it's a spinoff of Shark Tank.

And it was really funny because, um, you know, one of the people that went on Shark Tank was doing, uh, was doing something similar to like the Thera Gun and it was just a athlete recovery type, you know, um, e-commerce item, and they were pitching it. And Steven Bartlett goes, you know. I see these all the time, right?

I get sent these things every single day. I have a box, you know, I have boxes of 'em, you know, uh, stacked up in my garage from these companies, sending me these things to promote. And he was like, I'm out. she [00:41:00] was like, I understand that you may be sent all these items, but you're not our target demographic. And it was really interesting because it was like this moment where it clicked for him, where he was like. Oh, am just someone who gets paid to do these things. I don't even agree with what I'm promoting. I don't even know what I'm selling. And then she's like, we're not trying to go after influencers like you or, or you're not even in our target demographic.

Like we have a really specific audience of people that are struggling with this specific thing and we just want to go after them. Like the micro influencers in that space that help people with that thing. Are the ones who are gonna sell that thing, not a Steven Bartlett or 

Joanna Newton: Yep.

Brandon Trentalange (2): has, you know, boxes of similar items stacked up in their garage 'cause of just free promo and press. 

Joanna Newton: Yeah, it's such a good point. And I think sometimes, like, especially like we talk to entrepreneurs who wanna get into [00:42:00] the digital space, wanna be selling digital products, I think sometimes they look at. The big names, right? Brendan Burchard or all of these people, Alex Hermo, and they see this huge following and they think the only way I can make a lot of money is to have a million followers.

Brandon Trentalange (2): Mm-hmm. 

Joanna Newton: there's a reality that you can have a powerful impact with 3000. Like you really can. And it's about being that targeted and being that niche and connecting. We look at, um, you know, our inbound leads for clients. We just have public profiles, people direct message us. We're not mega influencers, but we're making money off our brand presence.

And I think that's something that people. Stop because they think, well, I don't have 10, 20, 50,000 followers yet. I only have 3000. I'm never gonna [00:43:00] make any money. That's just simply. Like not true that you can connect with and help and, and make money with a small audience if it's targeted. If you're being, you look at like Sarah, who is doing a really specific thing and provides recommendations for like a particular kind of person who relates to that and finds it valuable, and that's fantastic.

Brandon Trentalange (2): Yeah.

definitely. And I actually, I find it funny that, you know, we see a lot of these people with the massive audiences and they are not the people who outperform. People with really specific 

Joanna Newton: Yeah.

Brandon Trentalange (2): The other thing is too, everybody wants like virality and fame. Me personally, like I wanted that when I first started because I thought that was essential. If you told me tomorrow like, oh Yeah.

you know this, you know, whatever account that you're creating right now is gonna get to a million followers, I would not want. That type of virality [00:44:00] and fame for something that's really broad. Like I, I think the dream is, and I did this with, you know, the drone industry is like, get really specific. On one, like really small group of people that half my friends didn't even know existed. And that's totally fine. And then provide something really valuable to them and, and really immerse yourself in that, that community or that, you know, micro industry or that niche, whatever it is. And if you're in front of the right people and they think similar to you and they act similar to you and they do similar to you. people are the people who are like-minded, who see things at the same level. And if you say, Hey, I solved the problem. If it's your own product or I am using, this is what I use, I believe in this thing, people are gonna attract to that way

Joanna Newton: Yeah.

Brandon Trentalange (2): than someone in a broad industry being sent [00:45:00] multiple different things to promote. And, and not get the same results. So yeah, with Sarah for instance, you know, she only promotes things that she uses and she was using that thing before, you know, that brand deal or whatever. And the only reason she's doing a brand deal about it or you know, a promotion about it, is because she reached out to them and said, Hey, I love your product so much, and I would just love to promote it and be rewarded for that because I already do it. 

Joanna Newton: Yeah, 

Brandon Trentalange (2): yeah. so I, I think that that's, you know, really the micro influencers and the people that are passionate about small audiences, um, are gonna be the most successful moving forward. Um, and you know, I think that people at one point wanted this fame, but at the same time, social media is changing as well. In short form content is gonna be so saturated by AI and all of these. Things that are gonna hit your feed [00:46:00] where You're not gonna know if it's real or if it's fake, or if you know a person created this or if this influencer did this thing. You're gonna actually look for more genuine content, content moving forward. And as, as we've kind of predicted, um, and see this shift.

Now we're shifting. Completely to YouTube because YouTube is one of the only search engines that has the same exposure as these social media platforms that also promotes, or the, the content that the platform was built for is long form authentic content, and that's how people digest, you know? you know, and, and will digest content moving forward. The podcast as an example, listening, hearing authentic conversations, YouTube watching, hearing authentic conversations. And it's a search engine, so it's value driven as well. And I think people are gonna really enjoy discussions and [00:47:00] enjoy authentic content in a way moving forward.

Where, you know, the, the saturation in your feed right now isn't gonna have the same value.

Joanna Newton: Yeah, yeah. You're not going to connect as much there. And YouTube has always had this added benefit of. Helping like your Google search, SEO. And right now, if you've been in a business who's who has relied on SEO with AI and with all the AI previews, it is getting harder and harder and harder to rank on the first page of Google.

But if you have. A top YouTube video in that category, you can get on that first page of Google. So there's so many benefits to being on YouTube, to have deep conversation, deep value. It's searchable, which is why we are going all in on YouTube in 2026. And if that's like a journey that really, really interests you, if you're [00:48:00] list.

You can join our free 10 Day Course Creator Challenge, and we're gonna be talking about these topics right in there over the next couple of months, and really helping people figure out how to create their first digital product and turn that into sales via YouTube.

Brandon Trentalange (2): Awesome. Yeah.

I know. I love it. I'm really excited about that. And, and the, the goal of this with YouTube is just help more people scale beyond their one-to-one work. Um, and that's how we started this conversation, which is awesome

Joanna Newton: Yeah.

Brandon Trentalange (2): it. In the end, that's what, you know, people moving forward, they wanna be authentic, they wanna share their value with others, and they wanna help more people just online.

And so, um, and so that's, it is gonna be a 

Joanna Newton: Yeah.

Brandon Trentalange (2): community that we're building. And I, I think that we're gonna do it in an authentic way using YouTube, for example. That's gonna help a lot of people. So I'm very excited about 

Joanna Newton: Yeah. Well, thank you so much for chatting with me today and filling in for Michelle while she's out on vacation. [00:49:00] It was a little weird doing this with somebody else, but it was really, really good. I didn't mention this earlier, but I think I told you this. You are the first male guest we've ever had on the show.

Brandon Trentalange (2): Well, thank you for trusting me. I appreciate that.

Joanna Newton: Well, thank you so much for tuning into this episode of Click Tease. If you found it helpful, please share it with a friend and make sure you're subscribed so you get a notification when we put out another episode next week. See you next time.